Episode #35 – The Performance Marketing Spotlight with David Katz

Marshall Nyman [00:00:01]:
Hello and welcome to the performance marketing Spotlight. I’m your host, Marshall Nyman, founder and CEO of Nymo and Company. Each episode I will be bringing you someone with deep experience in the performance marketing space where they will highlight their experiences within the industry. Today I have David Katz, co founder and CEO at Archer Affiliates. Welcome to the podcast, David.

David Katz [00:00:21]:
Hey, how’s it going? Marshall, thanks so much for having me on today.

Marshall Nyman [00:00:24]:
Of course. Excited to have you on today. And let’s jump right into it. Can you briefly introduce yourself to the audience?

David Katz [00:00:29]:
Of course. I am David Katz. I am the, or I should say a 23 year old first time founder or co founder of Archer Affiliates, which is a, one of the first affiliate marketing networks specifically designed for Amazon Sellers. Currently from born and raised in New York, true New York City, man, it’s New York and the rest of the world for me. And yeah, that’s, that’s me.

Marshall Nyman [00:00:53]:
How did you get your start in marketing?

David Katz [00:00:55]:
Oh, my start of marketing goes back to really when I was in high school. It’s really my start. I come from an Amazon background mostly, so actually quite new to the affiliate space and really only got to know the people and learn about affiliate over the last year or two since we started Archer. But my start in marketing or e commerce, I would say as a whole goes back to during my days in high school, learning about selling on Amazon and, you know, buying stuff in retail stores and selling it for a little bit of a profit on Amazon. From there, I actually started my own brand at some point. We were selling hot cocoa bombs like these pieces of chocolate that you drop into hot water and it turns into hot cocoa. It was a little bit of a, of a trend back a few years ago. So that was one of my first brands.

David Katz [00:01:37]:
Went on to start a few more brands as well as work with a few agencies and directly with a few brands, specifically in the beauty space, but mostly predominantly focused on, again, Amazon. And really it’s more specifically marketing on Amazon. So really targeting customers that search for specific products in Amazon and learning how to identify demand of customers like what they’re searching for in Amazon in specific categories where there wasn’t a lot of competition, competitive products, and being able to fill that demand by launching products that target some of these search terms, if that makes sense.

Marshall Nyman [00:02:12]:
And then a few years ago, you started Archer. What is Archer?

David Katz [00:02:15]:
Yeah, so a few, I’ll give you a little bit of the background story into how we started Archer. So. Well, first, what is Archer? Archer is an affiliate network specifically designed for Amazon sellers. So we essentially connect sellers with anyone who promotes Amazon products or any affiliate who promotes Amazon products. So traditionally, these affiliates, and I think we’ll get into a little bit more on what the traditional affiliate partnership looked like for publishers that were working with Amazon. But to leave it in a nutshell, publishers or affiliates were working for the most part directly with Amazon, meaning they were identifying specific Amazon products that they wanted to promote or that they would fit their audience’s needs. And their commission payouts on generated sales when they promoted these products would get paid out through the Amazon Associates program and publishers would earn traditionally a pretty small commission compared to what they earn on standard commerce products. And across most other GDC opportunities, it was usually about a three to 5% commission.

David Katz [00:03:14]:
What we’ve done and what Archer does is enable these publishers and affiliates to connect directly with thousands of sellers who are willing to independently fund affiliate commissions on top of what Amazon themselves is paying out through the Amazon Associates program. So on average, we’ve been able to pay out an 18% commission, which is like four X what a publisher is normally earning on Amazon or traditionally was earning on Amazon on the sales that they generate on Amazon. The start of Archer, really the background of the company comes from, again, my days of being a pretty big seller on Amazon and working with a lot of pretty large brands and managing their Amazon and identifying marketing opportunities from them. And traditionally, as most people who are familiar, or marketers, I should say, that are familiar with Amazon knows, and kind of what I alluded to before is Amazon marketing is based on really identifying customer intent and fulfilling that customer intent, or most specifically, by what I mean by customer intent is search terms. Someone’s searching for reusable water bottle with a straw in it and you’re just, just identifying that this potentially can be a category of products that don’t have a lot of competitors. You launch a product that fits that search term and you hopefully sell well. What was not happening on Amazon was the ability as a seller, we never had the ability to target customers at earlier stages in their purchasing journey. It was just again, very focused on customers with intent and fulfilling that intent.

David Katz [00:04:34]:
The world of affiliate marketing is obviously different in general, and there’s different types of affiliates, which I’m sure you know more about than I do Marshall. But you know, there’s affiliates at all stages of the customer funnel. But in general, I think most, for the most part, affiliate is predominantly targeted towards mid to even upper funnel, I would say. And as a seller, that opportunity to target people in those segments of the customer funnel never existed from when it related to Amazon products. So really what I’m most excited about is just giving sellers and Amazon brands that ability to not just focus their marketing on targeting customers that are already on Amazon, searching for specific things, but really target them when they’re on social media, browsing what their favorite influencers are promoting, or reading an article about what the best gifts for father’s day are or you know, targeted at, you know, doing research in reviewed article about the best air purifiers or whatever, whatever it may be, but really targeting these customers that are not yet at that last purchasing, at the last stage of that purchasing journey for searching a product on Amazon. And ultimately what that’s done is enable sellers to get a whole new channel or brands to get a whole new channel of Amazon sales, which has been awesome.

Marshall Nyman [00:05:47]:
If a brand wants to get started with an Amazon affiliate program, why should they work with Archer?

David Katz [00:05:54]:
Good question. I think we’re unique in a few areas. So really I think the network as a whole, we’re one of the only networks that have the business model of truly being fully performance based. So what that means is we charge no upfront fees, no setup fees, and even more than that, we have no monthly fees. Everything is fully performance based. The way we work with the seller in the process is sellers sign up to Archer, we connect to their Amazon advertising account to enable us to get access to a tool called the Amazon attribution, which is essentially a tool that enables us to track sales. Or I should say it enables the affiliates to track the sales and use special link parameters which they can access through our portal to track the sales. But once that connection is made, sellers have the ability to simply set up a commission offer on what they’re willing to offer to the publishers on generated sales.

David Katz [00:06:47]:
And that’s it. The products are live. It’s a really, really automated, simple process to set up. And we give brands obviously the ability from there to be as aggressive as they would like to be, invested as much time as they would like to be in terms of responding to affiliates and communicating with affiliates. But fundamentally, number one, it’s a really just automated, simple platform to and program to work with. And then two is our business model is designed so that it’s truly a no brainer. Again, no upfront fees, no monthly fees. It’s simple.

David Katz [00:07:18]:
You set up a commission offer and that’s all you pay on generated sales.

Marshall Nyman [00:07:22]:
What was the biggest challenge when you started out with Archer?

David Katz [00:07:26]:
The biggest challenge in starting Archer was, I would say, I mean there’s so many. But really I think one overarching challenge that encompasses a lot of smaller ones was a network is essentially what I would call a marketplace. And a marketplace business is pretty much building two businesses at once. We’re building a tool for Amazon sellers and at the same time we’re building a tool for publishers. And that takes two different sets of go to market strategies. That takes two different teams, that takes two different products. It’s just totally, I mean, obviously the business as a whole is bringing those two worlds together and it’s one big business, but it’s really, if you look at it in terms of like strategy and what needs to be done and in terms of execution, it’s two different businesses and it’s, number one, just really hard to stay focused when you’re doing that. And number two, it takes a lot building essentially two startups at once.

David Katz [00:08:28]:
So I think that took a lot of, it was, number one, almost just the chicken or the egg problem in the early days of like, you can’t really recruit publishers with no brands and you can’t really recruit brands with no publishers. And once we got over that initial hump, even now, it’s just making sure that we’re really focusing on like the targeting and the marketing that we’re using to recruit Amazon sellers and Amazon brands is very different than the targeting and the marketing and the sales pitch that we’re using to approach publishers and work with publishers and affiliates.

Marshall Nyman [00:09:02]:
Anything exciting on the roadmap for Archer?

David Katz [00:09:05]:
Yeah, so much so I don’t even know where to start. That’s just an overwhelming question. I think, number one, we’re excited to eventually expand to other geos. We’re very excited for the opportunity to bring your services to different parts of Europe, which is going to be awesome. And I think from a product perspective where really we have some like a portal update going live, hopefully within the next few weeks, which I’m stoked about. And then I think more in the long term, we look to really incorporate a lot of AI tools and a lot of just different tools. I know AI now gets like almost a bad rep because it’s just been overused and whatnot, but I think there’s a lot of tools that we’re excited about in terms of just being able to help publishers identify Amazon products that fit their audience’s needs. Like just that product discovery phase for publishers, which I think is a pretty, it’s a pretty tough process for them.

David Katz [00:10:03]:
I think there’s a lot of room there that we’re going to help automate, which is going to be really exciting.

Marshall Nyman [00:10:10]:
What has been your favorite part of working at Archer?

David Katz [00:10:13]:
Oh, for sure. The people that we get to connect with, it’s been unbelievable on both ends. I think one of the advantages of working in a marketplace, which like I said before, is two different businesses at the same time, is that we get to meet people or I get to meet people, at least on both sides of the business. And I think it’s, I’m at the cross section of two just awesome industries. In terms of the e commerce Amazon space and in terms of the publishing space, by far the best part of it on both of them is the people, the network, especially the affiliate space. It’s awesome. It’s not a massive space. On the affiliate side, I think the Amazon seller side is significantly bigger.

David Katz [00:11:02]:
The affiliate space is bound massive. Everyone knows each other. I think it’s just for sure the people.

Marshall Nyman [00:11:10]:
Can you explain how Archer works with Amazon associates?

David Katz [00:11:15]:
Yeah. So from a seller’s perspective, it’s a good question. So from a seller’s perspective, it’s really associates. Well, let’s just backtrack. Let’s, I think give, give you kind of a lay of the land, Marshall is to what associates is, I know we touched on that before, and then we’ll touch on to how Archer plays a role into that. So, associates, as Amazon’s general affiliate program, Amazon pays publishers a percentage of all generated sales. It’s a very small percentage of all generated sales that they’re able to bring to Amazon. Now, from a seller’s perspective, or from a brand’s perspective, or an advertiser, whatever, we use those words interchangeably.

David Katz [00:11:59]:
There was no ability or way that they can work with associates. It was kind of a black box. One of the reasons we started Archer is all my Amazon products, I would never know. Number one, which affiliates were promoting them. Number two, who the affiliates that promoted Amazon products were to get in contact with them and then obviously had no ability to fund these commissions. It was the publishers doing all the work, and as a seller, it was kind of had no access to that and no visibility or anything. What Archer has done is create that relationship between the seller and the publisher and enabled sellers to kind of have some skin in the game. So from a seller’s perspective, it’s everything.

David Katz [00:12:43]:
There’s really no ability to work with associates, and from a publisher’s perspective, it’s totally incremental. The publishers now have the ability to run their associates program as they normally would, and then on top of that, they can add in this layer of Archer where they can earn much higher rates on a. Now we have over 200,000 Amazon products which working with a massive amount of products, and not just Brandon products, these are top products from top brands, which is a huge opportunity for everyone.

Marshall Nyman [00:13:17]:
What are the pros and cons of running an Amazon program versus a DTC based program?

David Katz [00:13:24]:
Yeah, I would say the ultimate answer is you need both. I don’t know if there’s pros and cons, but what I would say is we hear a lot of times the question we get from brands, a lot is, is my Amazon program going to sabotage my other affiliate efforts? And what I think is maybe, you know, I might, I might hear the genie that sees everything. But what I do know is I think what’s important is to ultimately give publishers the option of giving them every reason and opportunity to promote your brand. If a publisher is more open, or frankly, this is what happens in most cases, just sees a higher conversion rate when promoting an Amazon product. Give them that opportunity if they want to promote your g to C brand because a lot of brands see higher AOV, Orlando, have more customer retention or whatever the case may be, then they’ll promote your d two C product. But really give a publisher that ability to make that decision, I think is a no brainer for brands. I don’t think there’s a lot of sabotaging that’s necessarily done in terms of giving publishers options. The other thing I would throw out is there are some pretty massive advantages to running an Amazon that don’t exist with d two C.

David Katz [00:14:50]:
So number one, it’s little known, but Amazon is actually offering a percentage back on any sales generated from what they call external traffic. So from sales originating from off of Amazon or traffic originating off of Amazon and brought to Amazon that converts. Amazon actually pays sellers and brands a commission on that in the form of a credit on future orders, referral fees. So that’s pretty massive. And for some of the brands working with, they’re seeing as high as like 1112 percent of the money that they’re spending. The sales that they’re generating coming back to them from Amazon, which they’re obviously just investing into affiliate programs and other programs similar, which is massive and doesn’t exist. And then I think the other true biggest big advantage into Amazon is conversion. We kind of touched on before is just conversion rates across the board on Amazon are significantly higher.

David Katz [00:15:45]:
It’s so easy to buy something on Amazon. It comes with a massive amount of credibility that customers have to free two day shipping for a customer, if you take a set of 100 customers and send them their product on Amazon and send that same set of customers to a product on Shopify or any other GDC website, the conversion rate in almost every situation is going to be much higher on Amazon. Fact. So again, I think ultimately the answer is I don’t see a circumstance as to why a brand wouldn’t have both programs running programs for their Amazon program for their GDC and ultimately just let the publisher make that decision.

Marshall Nyman [00:16:26]:
Any upcoming conferences or events you’re planning on attending?

David Katz [00:16:30]:
Yeah, I mean it’s been a packed season. I feel like Q three, Q four is always a little packed. Upcoming. We have, I think this week is Amazon unbox, which is going to be in Austin and Texas, which I’m super excited for. It’ll be there. And then the end of this month I’m going to be at Amazon Innovate, which is going to be here in New York. We’re going to be exhibiting at that should be a fun time. And if I’m not mistaken, I got to check my calendar again.

David Katz [00:17:02]:
But if I’m not mistaken, I think that’s actually it for the year, which is kind of cool. I think we have some year end stuff, that Martech event and whatnot, but that’s it for the year. And then we got 2025, which is crazy. So it’s going to be ASW coming up and a few other Amazon ones in the beginning of the year.

Marshall Nyman [00:17:26]:
Any predictions on where you see things headed in respect to marketing on Amazon through affiliates?

David Katz [00:17:33]:
Yeah, it’s a loaded question there. I think what I like to say is this world of affiliate marketing on Amazon for Amazon Sellers is barely begun. I almost like to say we’re in like the first or second inning of the affiliate marketing opportunity for Amazon sellers. Most sellers still don’t know that the opportunity exists. There’s still very few networks like ours and it really just, a lot of even publishers, they’re just used to Amazon paying these super, super, traditionally low rates. And once they start learning about how much they can be earning from Amazon sellers, I think those opportunities are going to expand rapidly. So really I’m just simply excited about for more education and more adoption and more awareness and ultimately more sellers and publishers working with Amazon. I think that’s going to be awesome.

David Katz [00:18:35]:
And I think ultimately it’s going to benefit consumers the most. Because of what I said before, almost every consumer prefers Amazon over a d to c shopping experience. In most cases, Amazon’s awesome.

Marshall Nyman [00:18:49]:
What has been your favorite part of working in the performance marketing industry, kind.

David Katz [00:18:53]:
Of what I touched on before, the people, man, it’s just, it’s a good space. I feel like the events are awesome and there’s, and I can’t say this for every industry, but there’s a real true, like, community feel to the space. Like I said before, it’s not massive. Everyone’s just one or two connections away from pretty much everyone in the space, if not knowing everyone in the space. And it’s awesome to see that community feel. I’m pretty confident that I can pretty much reach out, whether it’s on LinkedIn phone or email, to anyone in the space. And they’re a quick response away for any help, referral, anything connection that it may need. It’s awesome to be part of a.

David Katz [00:19:47]:
Part of a community like that.

Marshall Nyman [00:19:50]:
Well, a big thank you to David Katz for joining the podcast this week. Some great insights into his background and how you can leverage Archer. David, what is the best way for listeners to connect with you?

David Katz [00:20:00]:
I’m available. I’m pretty active on LinkedIn. David Katz Archer affiliates on LinkedIn. That’s probably the best way you can email me through the company. The company’s website is archeryaffiliates.com and yeah, please reach out.

Marshall Nyman [00:20:15]:
Amazing. Again, thank you to our guest David Katz and to our producer, Leon Sonkin. If you’ve enjoyed this content, please give us a like and a follow. Thank you for listening in. I am Marshall Niman, host of the performance marketing spotlight and founder and CEO of Nimo and co signing off. Thank you and have a great day.