Episode #58 – The Performance Marketing Spotlight with Alexandra Chepulsky

Marshall Nyman [00:00:02]:
Hello and welcome to the Performance Marketing Spotlight. I’m your host, Marshall nyman, founder and CEO of Naimo Company. Each episode I will be bringing you someone with deep experience in the performance marketing space where they share their career journey and insights about the industry. Today I have Alexander Chapolsky from Caraway. Welcome to the podcast.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:00:20]:
Hi Marshall, thanks for having me.

Marshall Nyman [00:00:22]:
Hi, excited to have you on today. Let’s get right to it. We’d love for you to introduce yourself to the audience.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:00:27]:
Sure. So my name is Alexandra. As mentioned, I have been in marketing for over 12 years now and specifically in affiliate marketing for nine years. So yes, started off with a marketing basically being a marketing assistant to the team. So had a glimpse of like all of the marketing channels and after that have been in paid marketing and PR as well and finally fell in love with the affiliate marketing.

Marshall Nyman [00:01:07]:
So how did you initially get your start in digital marketing?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:01:11]:
Sure. So I have, I have been studying in London and that’s how I basically started it off. So my master’s degree is in marketing too and I think that I’ve always known that I will be in marketing because I really like the ads on the TV back in day and that was my like idea of marketing. So then obviously I shifted into digital marketing. So I started off with being a marketing assistant in the online commerce brand in London and helped the team with, yeah, as I mentioned with everything from email marketing to pay that to PR and obviously affiliate marketing too back at the time when it wasn’t what it is now. And after a couple of years I ended up in the affiliate manager role and that was back in Europe too. And I completely like fell in love with that. It was very, I think early days specifically in Europe for affiliate marketing in the financial space actually.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:02:17]:
And yeah, so I worked with partners across like all European countries, you know, using Google Translate to find them and it was a very fun experience. And then finally when I moved to US to new, I’ve worked at the meal delivery startup where I started the affiliate program as well for the brand and finally ended up at Caraway where the affiliate program was very early stages. So I was the first hire to build the affiliate program.

Marshall Nyman [00:02:53]:
So what was the switch from going from digital marketing manager to affiliate marketing manager?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:02:59]:
The. I think that like back at the time I felt like I missed the communication with like partners. So I like the pay dance but that part of like basically building partnerships and working on that was missing for me. So and also at the time like I saw when looking at the, you know, the Traffic and the data I saw that people really were looking for reviews. So that’s like kind of logical, you know, once people see the brand for the first time, usually on Facebook, and they are really looking for the real reviews of the product and that what makes them convert. So I was just interested in that part more than you know, what I was doing. So that’s how I started in affiliate marketing.

Marshall Nyman [00:03:56]:
And so your journeys led you to Caraway. Tell us a little bit about who they are and what you do in your role for them.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:04:02]:
Sure. So I’m senior affiliate marketing manager at Caraway. I have been at Caraway for three and a half years now. So started when the team was pretty small and as I mentioned like the program was very early stages. It was basically just set up a little prior my arrival and my day to day is basically focusing on the affiliate partnerships. So yeah, I work very closely with our affiliate agency as well.

Marshall Nyman [00:04:33]:
Tell us a little bit about the products they sell.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:04:36]:
So Caraway Home is a non toxic kitchenware brand and we have everything starting from cookware, bakeware to newly launched accessories which are spoon rests, grill, press and some of the other very popular products are the food storage containers. We have knives, wooden utensils. So basically anything that you need for.

Marshall Nyman [00:05:04]:
Your kitchen speaks to me. Spend a lot of time. My kitchen definitely have a few great Caraway products as well. What was the affiliate program like when you took it over?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:05:14]:
It was like 80% of the revenue was coming from like various coupon sites was as I mentioned like very early stages. We had like, as I remember like probably 40 or 50 partners back at the time. Most of them were like cash back loyalty partners. And when I came in I just saw a lot of potential with building relationships with like blogs, getting the reviews up as people were really like searching for reviews. It wasn’t a super known brand back at the time. So for me, yeah it was one of the first things is like how do we make sure that the revenue is mostly coming from the content and not like the lower funnel partnerships.

Marshall Nyman [00:06:08]:
So how did you switch to more of a content based approach and what does your program look like now?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:06:13]:
Yeah, so now we don’t work with any coupon sites. We have FPU loyalty partners but are very strategic ones where we can do lots of placements and yeah, they’re really large partners. But how, how does the switch happen? So when I started off, first thing that I have done prior to all of the AI tools, I just researched all of the publishers that were talking about the Cookware and specifically like non toxic ceramic cookware. And back at the time we only had like two products. So I kind of realized, you know who the those top ones are, the ones that are driving most traffic. And I made sure that I found the right contacts there and just build a relationship, send samples and because the products are really great, like obviously they fell in love with them and this is how like Caraway started to appear in all of the top best product articles. And that’s what was driving a lot of traffic back then and still is actually. But so this was the first thing so like just strategically thinking who do I contact when just also understanding like what they were looking for.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:07:45]:
So when as we like all know, the content is updated, not like every month, like sometimes it’s once a year or once in six months. So it’s very important to know that and make sure that your partners are getting like all of the information, samples and everything ahead of time so that they have time to test it out and then include brand, hopefully in the content.

Marshall Nyman [00:08:13]:
How has a brand been impacted by all the changes in the industry we’ve seen recently with Google, AI and the click list world that we’re headed into?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:08:22]:
Yeah, it’s been an interesting journey but like I think at the moment like I, I’m still seeing a lot of like clicks from the actual articles that AI is showing to people. So basically it’s still those articles that you would find if you Google, you know, best, whatever cookware or bakeware. So and even though like there are a lot of talks about the traffic lowering from all of the press partners, actually I’m not seeing that as much for Caraway at the moment. But I know that definitely this is a constant conversation with our press partners. What are their like basically moving forward, what are their strategies there and how can we like help them as well. And also like affiliate platforms are doing a lot of things I think for that too, like changing the attributions. So I think it’s all of us working together and figuring it out. But I am actually quite excited about this next step.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:09:41]:
And how will affiliate marketing change? As I mentioned in the beginning, when I just started in affiliate marketing, if you remember, it was just a website with feeds, like with actual product feeds and that was called affiliate marketing like I don’t know, 11 years ago. So now we are here with a completely different setup. So I’m very excited to see how AI will change our industry.

Marshall Nyman [00:10:06]:
What’s been your favorite part of working at Caraway?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:10:09]:
My favorite part is like Hearing the feedback from our partners. I work with a lot of like the actual editors or testers who are testing the products for months and then I get to, you know, receive all of the feedback and what I, I talk to them a lot about what they have cooked in their Caraway. And yeah, it’s, it’s one of the most amazing things. It’s just to you know, share their products with them and get to know what they liked about the product and getting like real life feedback. And another thing is that I have built a program that is basically a win win for us and also our partners and like also hopping on a call and just hearing how grateful they are for it is also like an amazing like testament to the hard work that we’re all doing like day to day. So. Yeah.

Marshall Nyman [00:11:15]:
Why do you think a brand should get started in affiliate marketing?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:11:19]:
Well, one of the things I have mentioned is like the real honest feedback, like basically a third party tested feedback which gives like brand credibility from all of the other important sources, whether it’s magazines, blogs or influencers. I think it’s very important because just with the Google Ads I don’t think it’s enough. I don’t know about you, but I’m always going to YouTube or anywhere else just to find out how the product is actually working. Even if I see a really great ad on Facebook or Instagram. I think that’s one of the important things. And then another one is in terms of return of investment, like affiliate channel is usually the most profitable one. So I think that’s like also a no brainer.

Marshall Nyman [00:12:20]:
What are your thoughts on PR and affiliate currently kind of merging together. How do you tackle that at Caraway?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:12:27]:
Yeah, I think that our setup is kind of unique because most of the traffic and revenues coming from like large content which is like press or blogs. And it has always been very important to work closely with the PR agency that we have just to make sure we know who do we contact when we always agree on the timelines, the angles that we are taking when we are talking to editors and the media itself. And I think that this is actually a necessity for any brand. Like you can’t have them solo because, and this has been a conversation for the past couple of years, but I always thought that it’s very important because dress is looking for, you know, getting that extra commission. So you kind of have to make sure that they know where to find the affiliate links and who to go to if they need any specific questions on the affiliate program. So you should always work with The PR agency or team.

Marshall Nyman [00:13:40]:
Is it fair to say gifting is a big part of your strategy?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:13:45]:
Yes, of course. I think it’s a very important part, but it’s not. I don’t see it as like. I think it’s like just a necessity. But apart from that, like one of the most important things is also sharing like important facts about our products, strategically thinking where, when to share new products that are launching, creating like exclusive promotions for our partners. I have also worked on exciting projects like creating an exclusive bundle for one of our big partners that we are working with in the press. So there are various things and it depends on. I like to take the approach where I try to understand what the partner is looking for and then go from there in terms of the strategy on how we communicate and what do we do with that partner.

Marshall Nyman [00:14:53]:
It’s been an interesting few weeks in the affiliate industry. A lot of discussion around browser extensions and some of the behaviors of honey that were happening. I know you mentioned you stay away from coupon and some of the lower funnel sites, but any thoughts on browser extensions or just the honey situation in general?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:15:14]:
I think specifically with honey, like as I mentioned, I have previously worked and lived in Europe and when I came to the US I was new to the affiliate world here. And when I learned about Honey, I straight away and thought that it’s like a partner that I wouldn’t want to work with because I don’t think that they are incremental. And yeah, that’s what I basically didn’t do. So I haven’t really worked with them in the past from the beginning. But I think overall I think it’s a good move that a lot of the platforms last and this week have excluded them from the programs. And it’s, it was a long time coming, I think from when it started last year, the whole conversation about it. So. And when I joined Caraway, like in a couple of months, I deleted all of our coupon partners.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:16:25]:
It was like a very tough step to take. But I think that this is where you can actually see how the program is performing so then you understand who the top partners are. So yeah, so I think it’s a, it’s an interesting time for all of the brands who were working with them and you know, maybe it will give them the opportunity and some insights that they haven’t found prior when they were working with them. Like those sales will, you know, will come from somewhere else.

Marshall Nyman [00:17:00]:
Yeah, definitely. Very interesting. I’m sure a lot more discussion. Curious to see how it all shakes out. Any predictions on the future of performance marketing?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:17:11]:
Well, I think definitely the AI will change things. So I think, you know, as we have talked about the browser extensions, like, I think this is also like one of the things that they will probably eliminate, but we will see because I also have like their own browsers now. But I think that overall, like, I’m very excited to see how we can work on attribution together with affiliate platforms just to understand them better, where the conversions are coming from.

Marshall Nyman [00:17:55]:
Yeah, a lot of changes in the space with tracking and technology and search, so more to come there. It seems like we’re in a very interesting time with affiliate marketing. A lot of things kind of at a precipice and not sure which way they’re going to go. But I think it’s good for the industry. It creates opportunity.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:18:12]:
Yeah, for sure. That’s what I mentioned. It’s not the first time that the affiliate industry is changing. Honestly. I think it’s always a good thing. Change is always good.

Marshall Nyman [00:18:22]:
I agree. You got to evolve or you kind of just get stuck in the ways of the past. One last question. What’s been your favorite part of working in the performance marketing industry?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:18:36]:
My favorite part is building genuine relationships and win win partnerships, honestly. And another thing is that we have talked a lot about how evolving the affiliate channel is and it’s changing. There are so many news all the time and there are no days that are the same. That’s what I really like. And then there are endless possibilities of testing that you can do. Like, for example, at Caraway, I have been doing whitelisting testing with some of our press partners that I wouldn’t be able to do like even a year ago because not a lot of press partners were even aware what it is. So there needed to be some more education around it. And now we are doing it.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:19:33]:
So it’s always something that you can test and do, and that’s what I really like.

Marshall Nyman [00:19:40]:
Oh, that’s a great place to wrap. Definitely. Infinite opportunities. And really, it’s just what you make of it. Well, big thank you to Alexandra for joining the podcast this week. Really great insights into her background and her role at Caraway. What’s the best way for listeners to connect with you?

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:19:59]:
The best way is to find me on LinkedIn by my name that you can see here.

Marshall Nyman [00:20:05]:
Perfect. Well, thank you, Alexander, for joining and to our producer, Leon Sonkin. If you’ve enjoyed this content, please give us a like and follow. Thank you for listening in. I’m Marshall Nyman, host of the performance marketing spotlight and founder and CEO of Naimo and company signing off. Thank you and have a great one.

Alexandra Chepulsky [00:20:25]:
Thank you so much. Marshall.