Episode #64 – The Performance Marketing Spotlight with Breeze Leonard

Marshall Nyman [00:00:02]:
Hello and welcome to the Performance Marketing Spotlight. I’m your host, Marshall Nyman, founder and CEO of NYMO and Co and Company. Each episode, I will be bringing you someone with deep experience in the performance marketing space, where they share their career journey and insights about the industry. Today I have Breeze Leonard. Welcome to the podcast Breez.

Breeze Leonard [00:00:21]:
Hi. Thanks for having me.

Marshall Nyman [00:00:22]:
Of course. Really excited to have you on today. And let’s get right to it. Hey, can you briefly introduce yourself to the audience?

Breeze Leonard [00:00:28]:
Yeah. My name is Breeze Leonard. I am the director of affiliate partnerships for she Buys Travel. I’m also an entrepreneur at heart. I own a digital marketing company as well, back at home. And so in addition to that, I’m a mom to three beautiful girls and I have a love and passion for travel. So I can. Normally, nobody asks me how I’m doing.

Breeze Leonard [00:00:51]:
They’re asking me. They are like, where are you? Because that’s a relevant question for me because I do travel pretty often, so definitely have a busy schedule. But I’m happy I was able to take some time out today to talk about something I’m very passionate about, which is performance marketing.

Marshall Nyman [00:01:07]:
I live in the same world. I’m very passionate about travel, and that’s the first thing people tend to ask me about is where I’m going next. So we’ll get to that as we chat a little bit further, but would love for you to tell us how you got your start in marketing.

Breeze Leonard [00:01:20]:
Yeah, so I started in marketing. So you spend 12, 13 years ago, I thought I wanted to go into early childhood education. Started down that route and learned very quickly. That is a huge responsibility. And as I was becoming a mom at the same time, I started to change my focus. And so as I was at home with little girls and learning kind of about what I thought my maybe next steps would be, marketing really caught my attention. And so I started to ask for friends and family that owned businesses if I could kind of jump into helping assist them. Just really wanted to learn more about this space.

Breeze Leonard [00:02:02]:
The same time, I was also pursuing travel journalism, so I was doing some work with she Buys Travel at the time, writing for them about different destinations, traveling with my kids. Really enjoyed that time of my life. But it was then that I kind of discovered that, okay, this is. This is my thing. I really enjoy what I’m doing. So when I was introduced to affiliate marketing, it just kind of fell in my lap when Kim, the founder of she Buys Travel, was like, hey, I think we should be doing something in affiliate space. I know nothing about it here. Figure it out.

Breeze Leonard [00:02:34]:
And so that was really fun for me because I’m a data nerd. So being able to take this passion I’ve always had for marketing and then line it up with performance marketing, where I could really dive into the numbers to better understand what was working, what wasn’t, how to optimize those type of things, really excited me. So that’s kind of how I landed where I am right now.

Marshall Nyman [00:02:54]:
Tell us a little bit about Shibuys Travel.

Breeze Leonard [00:02:57]:
Shibuys Travel is a content publisher, has been in the space for over 15 years. We currently have over 100 writers that are writing for us, traveling all over. So we’re getting content from all the different destinations, both destinations, all over, all over the world. So what I love about it is that we have a variety of different content that I’m able to monetize and have a lot of different opportunities to work with many different brands. Everybody typically thinks that because we are a travel publisher that we just work with those in that vertical. However, I always tell everyone you can really sell anything through travel because it’s everything from the things you pack in your suitcase before your trip all the way to the, you know, home security service that is going to protect your home while you’re out of town. So a lot of different creative ways that we’ve been able to form some brand partnerships and she buys. Travel is a great resource for women who are looking for more information on how to travel to all types of different destinations, but also with, you know, their style of travel.

Breeze Leonard [00:04:05]:
Right. So you have solo female travelers, family travelers, you have those who like adventure and luxury. Adventure and luxury. So we just create a lot of content around that to kind of be that third party trusted voice that says, here’s where you should go, what you should do, where you should eat things, you should do all the fun stuff.

Marshall Nyman [00:04:24]:
And what are you focused on in your role there?

Breeze Leonard [00:04:26]:
My focus is on the brand partnership. So my job is to source brands for our content that’s going to resonate with our audience, that we feel is a good fit for our audience, and then to help the brands get more exposure within the content. So what I love about what we’re doing in the performance marketing space is that our audience is the buying audience. So women make 80% of the buying decisions in households and sometimes even more than that. So it’s the right audience to be speaking to. So we’re able to create all of this great content that’s being used as a resource. And then I’m able to take that and help Pair it with the brands that we are really excited to partner with that we ourselves love to use. So we come at it from a very authentic approach.

Breeze Leonard [00:05:15]:
We’ve had long term brand partnerships because of this. And so that’s what I’ve really loved about this space, is really concentrating on the partnerships and building these relationships. I attend all the conferences. I love the networking aspect of it. And I know it’s, you know, you and I both are bouncing around the conferences and it’s like a reunion for everyone. So that’s really what I enjoy.

Marshall Nyman [00:05:41]:
Tell us a little bit about the evolution of Shibuy’s travel. When you first started there, they weren’t doing anything in affiliate and you came in and changed that.

Breeze Leonard [00:05:50]:
Yeah, that was fun for me because, you know, not really having anything to start with, it was like, okay, I took that on in 2019, the true, like building out the affiliate strategy and then Covid hit in 2020. So I was immediately challenged with figuring out how to monetize a site when travel was restricted. That really taught me everything I needed to know about everything I do now because I felt like it was like a sink or swim type of situation. So what was nice was that we already had a dedicated audience. You guys travel, because it’s been in the space for so long, already had this amazing community of readers that were using us as a resource. And so when I started to implement an affiliate strategy and started to monetize the content, I was like, oh, not only are these women consuming the content, but they’re actually clicking and converting on our recommendations. So then I knew not only would we have a strong audience, we had a buying audience. So when I started to see that excitement in 2019 really was gearing up in 2020, I just had to shift to be more creative.

Breeze Leonard [00:07:00]:
Like, how do we help people feel like they can have travel experiences while stuck at home? How can I monetize? That definitely taught me a lot about how to create content that resonates with your audience at the right time. And so I think that continues to stay our focus.

Marshall Nyman [00:07:17]:
Are there any content formats or platforms that are performing well for you right now?

Breeze Leonard [00:07:22]:
We have shifted a lot into focusing more attention on social. We’ve seen our site content has always done really well. Newsletter has always been a strong performer for us. But over the last couple years, as we all know, social media just continues to grow and be a great place for exposure. So we have an in house influencer that we work with now that we chose to have one person so everybody could start Recognizing her and trust her recommendations. And she’s a digital nomad, so she’s traveling all over and really able to give you the experience of traveling alongside her. So that’s been a big change and shift for us is to find a way to monetize that as well on social platforms. So we’ve appreciated kind of getting to expand what we’ve been doing and just continue to, you know, use the channels that we have.

Marshall Nyman [00:08:16]:
Are there any stories that you’re working on right now that you’re very excited about?

Breeze Leonard [00:08:20]:
I’m always excited about travel stories. We do have a couple partners that we worked with pretty consistently in some great destinations. One’s in the Bahamas. They’re really exciting to see how we have created array of content from. We’ve been working with them for a long time, so we’ve tried to think of all the questions a reader might have that would prevent them from booking a trip to this resort and like, try to find a way to create content that would ease their mind and make them feel more comfortable in that purchase. Because we are that third party trusted voice. So when we talk about it, it’s different than when the brand talks about it. So we developed all this content around actually getting to the destination, what you can expect at the destination, what you should be making sure you’re doing and booking ahead of your trip.

Breeze Leonard [00:09:16]:
Watching how we’ve built this great audience that’s been interested in it and then reserving them, retargeting them, using all these tactics that we’ve learned to really drive that audience to feel confident in booking. That’s really exciting for me because we keep doing this quarter over quarter and seeing the success of it. And so when I can take what I like about performance marketing and then match it up with what I love about travel, it just gets really exciting for me.

Marshall Nyman [00:09:42]:
So much has changed recently in the industry. What is it like being a publisher right now?

Breeze Leonard [00:09:48]:
These are like muddy waters. But I feel as though we are all figuring out how to adapt to what we’re seeing happen. But it takes all the great minds in this industry for us to be able to do it. From the brands that we’re partnering with, to the tech partners that we use, to the agencies that are working with to figure out a way to make these partnerships stronger. All of that has been kind of what has to me been so impactful about the time that we’re in. It’s like there’s not feels like we’re not alone in what we’re doing. Everybody is jumping in together to figure out solutions. We’ve seen there’s so much going on right now.

Breeze Leonard [00:10:32]:
AI is the top of everyone’s minds, right? Because it has changed landscape completely. So publishers are now up against, wait, I’m creating all this great content. And now all of these LLMs are taking that content, serving readers. They don’t come to us directly anymore. And while that at first felt like a major threat, now we’re learning, okay, but we’re back in the days of when everybody was racing to get on the Internet and to get exposure in Google. Now everybody’s racing to get the exposure in these LLMs. And so, but guess how you get the exposure in them? You work with great content publishers who these LLMs trust. And so for us, that’s been a major shift in the conversations that we’re having.

Breeze Leonard [00:11:16]:
When brands are like, how do we get more exposure in AI? How do we be, you know, the brand that gets mentioned? When somebody does a search for the best travel shoes, we can come back and say, hey, we’re working with tech partners now that help us to measure our exposure and, and the exposure to the brands that we talk about. So not only can we say, hey, we’re going to help you get exposure, but we can actually measure it. And so these are all really exciting conversations that we’re having. So for a minute, it felt like, where do publishers fit in? And now we know we’re an answer to a question that a lot of brands are having. So that’s exciting.

Marshall Nyman [00:11:52]:
The LLMs absolutely need that information. So I don’t see that changing, but I do see being able to compensate the publishers the right way. That’s something that needs to change. So I think that’s really the biggest thing going forward is how does the LLMs give credit to publishers? So in your respect, what do you see? What do you think is going to happen? What would you say is a good state for publishers in order to be able to get credit for the content they’re creating?

Breeze Leonard [00:12:23]:
I think that there’s a lot of conversations going on right now with a lot of tech partners and networks in trying to figure out exactly that. Learning how we can work together to compensate publishers for everything that they’re giving the LLMs, whether or not we’re going to get it directly from the LLMs or not continues to be a major mystery for everyone. But the brands can start, right? Like the brands can start working with content publishers in a way that says, hey, we need to make this a mutually beneficial relationship. We want the exposure. You want to get paid. If attribution is such an issue here, how do we start solving these problems? And so I’ve been talking at the conferences actually with a lot of different tech partners and networks that are trying to solve this problem right now. So love that we have some great minds on it. Hopefully we’ll get answers to that soon.

Breeze Leonard [00:13:23]:
I’ve always said in for years, every time you think you have Google figured out, they change it. I mean, it was just impossible. Right. I feel like we’re feeling the same way about the LLMs.

Marshall Nyman [00:13:35]:
What’s been your favorite part of working at Shibuys?

Breeze Leonard [00:13:38]:
Travel perks are great. Getting to still continue to write for them has been very exciting for me to continue to do what I love so much. But then the other side of that is getting to watch as we’re making a difference not only for the women that are consuming the content that we’re writing, but also for the brands that we’re working with. So for me, that’s really been what keeps me motivated and moving forward. And I just love working on the publisher side.

Marshall Nyman [00:14:12]:
And speaking of that, you’ve been supporting chibuys for nine years and as you mentioned, love supporting on the publisher side. What does the future look like for you?

Breeze Leonard [00:14:22]:
Yeah, so, you know, I have learned so much being able to build everything we were doing in the affiliate space from the ground up. And so that kind of gave me a lot of insight into what works, what doesn’t work, how to, you know, stay up to date with everything that’s changing. And now I’m excited to be able to do that for more publishers. So currently working on exactly that. We’re building out an agency to be able to help manage more of these relationships and being more of a support to publishers. We know there’s a lot of great agencies like yourself that are helping brands. And so I’m working to kind of do the opposite of that on the publisher side. And so now when you come to me with a great portfolio of brands that we can work with, then I can do the same and bring a great portfolio of publishers to be able to be worked with.

Breeze Leonard [00:15:13]:
And I can speak for them because a lot of times, you know, there are challenges that we’re facing that I’ve, you know, worked with a lot of different brands in the past that we’ve been able to have a lot of successful campaigns and partnerships. And so if I can take that and expand it to more publishers, that’s what I think the future is going to look like for me.

Marshall Nyman [00:15:34]:
Awesome. Well, wishing You a lot of success on that and just happened to see you out in Phoenix for Rakuten’s conference. And then I know in a few weeks we’ll be out in Austin for ipx. Any other conferences you have planned for this year?

Breeze Leonard [00:15:52]:
I’ll be at ipx. I’ll definitely do asc and I’ll be at cju. So I try to definitely attend the major conferences. I like IPX because it’s more in my backyard. So I do located in Texas. So that one’s fun for me and getting to have everybody come out and. But yeah, I’m really excited to attend the others. I’m interested to see what type of information we’re going to get coming out of each one of these.

Breeze Leonard [00:16:21]:
Right. Because we knew going into Rakuten everybody was really excited to kind of hear what, you know, going on and the changes that we’ve been seeing there. And so I think every conference we go into right now, there’s a lot of valuable information that could come out of. Come out of it.

Marshall Nyman [00:16:37]:
Absolutely. I’m looking forward to some tasty Austin barbecue. I won’t be at Affiliate Summit. I’ll be traveling this summer like I always do, but our team will be there. And I actually bought my ticket last night for cju, so I will see you there as well. So looking forward to those conferences. So besides the work travel, what travel do you have coming up?

Breeze Leonard [00:17:02]:
You know, this year is going to be pretty busy. The major ones. I’ll be going to Sicily with some friends of mine and I’m really excited about that. We’ve got some smaller trips planned in the US That I’m looking forward to going to Zion national park, which is one of my favorite places in the United States, so really looking forward to that. And then I’m trying to fit in a trip to Belize, so we’ll see if that one gets planned. I’ve been. I was just in Turks and Caicos and we’re doing the snorkeling. And you know, when you get down there and you start to experience the island life and the snorkeling and how great it is, you’re like, okay, where can I go next to get this similar experience? And Belize has been on the list, so I’m really excited to kind of pursue that.

Marshall Nyman [00:17:53]:
I’m an avid scuba diver and Belize has been on my list for a long time. So definitely somewhere I’m looking to make it to. We’ll be headed to Japan. I’m taking my family to Tokyo for nine nights and then we’re going to be spending the rest of the summer abroad and Bali, Indonesia like we normally do. So we’re counting the days for our summer travel too.

Breeze Leonard [00:18:15]:
Bali’s on my list for next year. So it sounds like once you get back, I’ll have to reach out and get all of the information from you on that. And then my daughter wants to take a trip to Japan for her graduation gift. So I’m really excited about that as well. So it sounds like we’re going to have a lot to talk about.

Marshall Nyman [00:18:34]:
Yeah, well, looking forward to seeing you a few weeks in Austin. So as a publisher, what new opportunities do you see in this space?

Breeze Leonard [00:18:44]:
I think there’s a lot more conversation around the value of content. Right. So we’re getting a lot more questions around editorial content, the value that add. And what we’re seeing a lot more of is the dedicated review articles just because we know the LLMs are picking up those articles as a source and using publishers for that. So we’re talking a lot more about how to create more dedicated reviews for things that we know people are doing a lot of searches on. So that’s kind of the direction. I think we’re going to see more and more conversations around as these content campaigns. How do we continue to build out more content? LLMs are what they eat, so how do we keep feeding them?

Marshall Nyman [00:19:37]:
Absolutely. More content, more authentic content. I think that’s really the most important thing. And travels like very easy to be authentic. You go to the place, you actually have to like, you know, live it and feel it, to actually explain it. You know, feel like a lot of product reviews, you know, they’re not authentic. They’re not, you know, you can sense that somebody really didn’t use the product. But it seems today that if you’re not doing that organic content, the LLMs also see that.

Breeze Leonard [00:20:04]:
They do. Yeah. It’s amazing how much we’ve seen that shift. She buys travels traffic from has increased over 1600% in the last two months. So we’re definitely seeing the shift. Also encouraging for us because we know we’ve been writing authentic content for years and years and that’s really paying off now as we’re starting to see that we’re able to be that source because we can be trusted in our recommendations. And like you said, travel is something that, you know, it’s different than if you’re going to go buy, you know, a ten dollar pair of headphones. It’s not a lot of thought has to go into a lot of research and everything but anything you’re going to do travel related, you’re traveling out of the country or you’re going to a destination you’ve never been before, there’s a lot of search that goes into that.

Breeze Leonard [00:20:56]:
And so it’s a great niche for us to be in. And yeah, I like it.

Marshall Nyman [00:21:02]:
It’s a big investment for a family, so you want to make sure you don’t make any mistakes. And you know, from what we’re seeing for brands that are standing out with AI search, they’re doing a few things. Well, one of them is working with like large traditional mass media content sites. The second area we’re seeing is working with authentic content creators. YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and then we’re also seeing content on Reddit. So like, those three things seem to be what’s driving a lot of the direction. So if you can kind of dabble in all those areas of your affiliate program, I think that’s a great way to see some growth. And she Buys Travel is a great way to help brands build some of that.

Breeze Leonard [00:21:47]:
Exactly. So I agree we’re definitely seeing the potential for a lot of growth right now. I mean, we’re seeing in the numbers right now, so I think that it’s going to open the doors for a lot more conversations and how we can all partner together.

Marshall Nyman [00:22:02]:
Well, this was a lot of fun. I know we could probably talk about travel and AI and marketing for days, but looking forward to connecting in person in a few weeks. Big thank you to Breeze for joining the podcast this week. Some great insights into her background and her role at she Buys Travel. What’s the best way for listeners to connect with you?

Breeze Leonard [00:22:22]:
Yeah, you can reach out to me@breezehebuystravel.com you can also find me on LinkedIn.

Marshall Nyman [00:22:29]:
Awesome. Again, thank you to Breeze for joining and to our producer, Leon Sonkin. If you’ve enjoyed this content, please give us a like and follow. Thank you for listening in. I’m Marshall Nyman, host of the Performance Marketing Spotlight and founder and CEO of Naimon Co. Signing off. Thank you and have a great day.