Episode #31 – The Performance Marketing Spotlight with Maura Smith

Marshall Nyman [00:00:02]:
Hello and welcome to the performance marketing Spotlight. I’m your host, Marshall Niman, founder and CEO of Nimon Co. Each episode, I will be bringing you someone with deep experience in the performance marketing space, where they highlight their experiences within the industry. Today I have Mara Smith, who is chief marketing officer at Partner Eyes. Welcome to the podcast, Mara.

Maura Smith [00:00:25]:
Hi, Marshall. Thank you so much for having me here today. I really appreciate it.

Marshall Nyman [00:00:29]:
Of course. Excited to have you on, and let’s get right to it. Could you introduce yourself to the audience, please?

Maura Smith [00:00:38]:
Sure. Hi, everyone. My name is Mara Smith. I’m the chief marketing officer at Partner Eyes and happy to be here on the podcast today.

Marshall Nyman [00:00:48]:
And how did you get your start in the performance marketing industry?

Maura Smith [00:00:52]:
I’ve been in the performance marketing industry for longer than I would like to admit. But I started my career at Pepper Jam when Pepper Jam was a digital agency, and the work that I was doing initially was managing affiliate programs on various networks on behalf of clients. So I really started out as an affiliate manager.

Marshall Nyman [00:01:22]:
Awesome. And you’re at Pepper Jam for quite some time. Tell us about the different roles you had there.

Maura Smith [00:01:29]:
Yeah, so, as I mentioned, I started out managing affiliate programs when I first started at Pepper Jam, and Pepper Jam had its own sort of unique evolution, if you will. The company went through various mergers, acquisitions, divestitures, and I was lucky enough to ride that wave with pepper jams evolution. And so in my time there, I really spent many years working on the client side, first managing affiliate programs. Then I went on to lead services teams or individuals who were managing affiliate programs. Eventually, you know, those teams went global, and I also spearheaded some of our operations teams, at one point leading the charge on publisher development integration, onboarding network quality. So I really have worn a lot of hats over the years, but really spent the majority of my time catering to clients and managing our services practice.

Marshall Nyman [00:02:44]:
And then in 2020, partner Eyes acquired Pepper Jam. Tell us a bit about the merger.

Maura Smith [00:02:50]:
How much time do you have? I’m kidding. So the merger was really exciting. It was exciting because there were two brands, two organizations who had two very distinct sets of assets and value that when they came together, were very, very complimentary in a way. So at the time, in 2020, Pepper Jam was a technology and services provider, really catering to retail brands in North America. And partner Eyes was a pure software organization that was global in nature, but whose focus was on not only retail, but travel and financial services. And so bringing the two together, partner eyes and Pepper Jam combined, was very complimentary in that respect, providing value that the other side didn’t necessarily have. So it was a really exciting time, a whole lot of work, but certainly.

Marshall Nyman [00:04:03]:
Well worth the investment for anyone not familiar. What does Partnerize do?

Maura Smith [00:04:10]:
So partnerize, coming off of the merger with Pepper Jam, naturally transformed into the only provider within the affiliate and partnership category to offer both partnership automation software and related service. So, you know, our distinct value is that we’re providing, you know, a progressive software capability to manage partner programs. But we also augment that with service practice to cater for brands who might need some support in managing the execution of that program management. Naturally, you know, following that merger, we are a global organization. Organization catering not only to retail, but travel financial services subscription d two c in a global capacity what do you.

Marshall Nyman [00:05:05]:
Do in your current role as CMO at Partner Eyes?

Maura Smith [00:05:09]:
What don’t I do again? I’m kidding. No. I am the chief marketing officer at Partnereyes, so I spearhead all of our global marketing efforts for the brand. So my team, I have a wonderful team who is global in nature and we’re responsible for producing all of our hosted events. We work with trade shows, various sponsorships, we procure content and thought leadership. And ultimately it’s our responsibility to keep the partnerized brand front and center with our audience.

Marshall Nyman [00:05:47]:
So you started out on the affiliate management side and now you’re leading the marketing efforts. What led to the shift in roles?

Maura Smith [00:05:55]:
So as I, as I mentioned to you, I spent many years on the client side of the business providing services to retail brands. And so after spending that time working on the client side, I really had what I thought was a very solid and innate understanding of our customer base. And so it was a natural sort of transition to shift into marketing using the experiences that I had in engaging and interacting directly with clients to help with the messaging for our organization, bringing forth that messaging, those experiences in our brand positioning, et cetera. So it wasn’t completely unnatural. I had studied marketing in my undergraduate and graduate degrees, so it wasn’t completely a radical shift, I would say, but one that was very natural.

Marshall Nyman [00:07:02]:
What has been your favorite part of working at partner eyes?

Maura Smith [00:07:07]:
I would say that honestly, I’ve seen the company through so many different phases of its evolution that my favorite part has always been working with the people that have been part of this organization in some facet shape or form throughout that journey. We have a very solid, hardworking group of employees who like to have fun. I would say it’s definitely a work hard, play hard mentality within our current employee base. But even beyond that, I think about the people who I’ve worked with at Pepper Jam and a partner eyes who have since departed the organization and are now working still within the affiliate and partnership category. But maybe on the agency side, on the partner side, it’s just great to really see, you know, our alumni spread their wings and have such a great impact across the space. So, yeah, I would say that my favorite part has always been about the people.

Marshall Nyman [00:08:21]:
What are you seeing in terms of pr, influencer and affiliate coming together?

Maura Smith [00:08:27]:
So this is a great question. From my vantage point, I would say that over the last few years we have seen a lot of discussion around pr, influencer and affiliate coming together. There’s been talk about convergence and are these three distinct disciplines becoming one? And I don’t know that there’s convergence as much as there is overlap. I think that the playbook has not necessarily been defined for establishing the best practice when it comes to working across these three disciplines. So we see brands who might have a PR team that is working with influencers or perhaps even affiliates. We see affiliate teams who often have to, you know, engage with creators. But I think it’s really highly dependent on the brand and what their KPI’s are and, you know, what types of budgets they’re willing and able to invest. And so while there is overlap, I don’t know that we can say that there’s necessarily convergence because brands are still figuring it out.

Maura Smith [00:09:56]:
So I think that’s sort of the headline and I think underneath that there has to be a realistic conversation about what that opportunity truly looks like for a brand. Often I see others in the space who are, you know, pushing this narrative that influencers are, you know, going to offer this amazing opportunity for brands to work on a performance basis. And sometimes it creates false hope for brands and they need to be brought back down to a realistic view to really understand what that opportunity looks like. You know, a brand who’s working with influencers or creators through the affiliate model is not going to be able to necessarily command the attention of an influencer who has mega followership, you know, through the likes of Kylie Jenner, and work on a performance basis. It’s just not realistic. These mega influencers realize and know that, you know, if they work purely on a performance basis, there’s missed opportunity for them in terms of their own revenue and earning potential. And so therefore, I think it requires a really direct and real conversation with brands to size the opportunity and put some parameters around it. As an example, I think that when influencers or creators are working in the affiliate, under the affiliate model, probably the best opportunity for brands to capitalize on that is through the likes of micro and nano influencers.

Maura Smith [00:11:37]:
And the reason is because that these influencers don’t necessarily have the high follower bases or audiences to command upfront, you know, high campaign fees for sponsorship. And therefore they’re more than willing to work on a performance basis or on a conversion basis to, you know, establish themselves with the brand, create a relationship, get their foot in the door. And that’s probably more of the realistic avenue that a brand can take to work with influencers through the affiliate model on a direct basis. Again, you’re not going to be able to command the attention of a Kylie Jenner and say, hey, are you willing to work on a conversion basis through an affiliate link? Because, you know, these creators, they understand that the majority of their earning potential lies in sponsorship fees because they can command it. So perhaps a little distinct from that of others in the category, but just some thoughts on how I see those three disciplines working together.

Marshall Nyman [00:12:52]:
What are some major challenges you’re seeing networks face in the affiliate space?

Maura Smith [00:13:00]:
I’ve shared this before and I think that collectively within the affiliate and partnership category, the challenge that we face that other networks and platforms face is really capturing the attention of the C suite. So getting cmos and other revenue leaders to pay attention to the affiliate and partnership model so that they see the benefit, they understand its value and therefore are more than willing to drive more spend and investment into this category without their attention. You know, we are going to continually be plagued with reputational challenges and educational challenges and so we really need to win the favor of those who are in charge of the budgets. Quite honestly, I think this is a challenge that we have faced for many, many years. There’s been research that’s been produced under partner eyes. There’s been other providers who have produced research in a similar fashion. And the studies continue to show that the C suite doesn’t necessarily understand the affiliate model. They have a historical preference or bias to relying on other channels that they have greater comfortability in.

Maura Smith [00:14:32]:
And they have difficulty understanding how to measure and quantify the impact of the performance of this channel. So that I believe is what we are continually up against is winning their favor, educating them and helping to drive a greater understanding of the value that affiliate and partnership can offer their organizations.

Marshall Nyman [00:15:00]:
What is maybe a common misconception that people have about working in performance marketing that maybe is leading to some of those challenges?

Maura Smith [00:15:09]:
I think historically speaking, affiliate has been plagued with reputational challenges for, for a long time. There are many who still hold the belief that affiliate is predominantly coupon sites only, that it is only a last click vehicle. It might even be dodgy in some respects. And I think that this is a very antiquated way of thinking because the space has changed dramatically over a 20 year period affiliate. And so these are definitely misconceptions about affiliate and partnership. And I think that this plays into what I mentioned before is that we still are challenged to win the favor of the C suite. And part of that is because of the historical reputation that this category has held for too long.

Marshall Nyman [00:16:13]:
Any predictions on the future performance marketing or maybe where you see these things headed?

Maura Smith [00:16:21]:
Yeah, so I mentioned, you know, one of the reasons that I think that we need to capture the attention of the C suite is to ensure that we have an influx of spend directed into this category, you know, so that we can grow collectively in order to do that. However, I think that, yes, of course, winning the favor of the C suite and educating them is incredibly important. But I also believe that the growth of this category is not going to hinge on, you know, a singular event like the introduction of, you know, a new partner type. I don’t think that influencers and creators alone are going to be the tide that lifts all boats and drives a significant influx of dollars into this category to increase the addressable market. Instead, I think that the future of this category is really predicated on its ability to grow through technology. Technology is what is required to underpin this category’s growth. And so that’s where the players and providers in this space really need to lean in and initiate some hard work. That hard work revolves around introducing technology that improves automation in the space, improves predictability.

Maura Smith [00:17:57]:
You know, what is the probability that a partner or a publisher is going to drive a conversion on behalf of my brand? If we start to take steps towards automation and predictability, we’re going to capture more attention of brands, naturally, because as the space becomes a little bit more automated and more programmatic to a degree, will win the favor of the Swissweed because, you know, they want to always do more with less. So for me, I think that the future of affiliate and partnership really hinges on technology underpinning its own growth.

Marshall Nyman [00:18:48]:
And final question, what has been your favorite part of working in the performance marketing industry?

Maura Smith [00:18:56]:
So I would say outside of what I answered earlier about my favorite part at partnerize being the people that I work with, I think that my favorite part about working in the affiliate and partnership space is that it’s always growing and evolving, and growth and evolution offer immense opportunity for all of the participants in the category. As an example, you know, 15 years ago, the predominant type of partner that was operating in the, in the category was coupon and or cash back. Influencers weren’t even, you know, discussed. Today we’re talking about, you know, overlap with creators. We’re talking about the use of connected tv and really interesting models that are now leaning into affiliate and partnership as a means to monetize. So for me, I think my favorite part has always been, you know, watching some of the innovation on the partner side and, you know, seeing that change take shape, really before my very eyes.

Marshall Nyman [00:20:12]:
Well, a big thank you to Mara Smith for joining the podcast this week. Some really great insights into her background and how you can work with partner eyes. What is the best way for listeners.

Maura Smith [00:20:22]:
To connect with you so listeners can connect with partner eyes? Artnereyes.com. you can check us out on LinkedIn Artnereyes. And if you’re looking to get in touch with me, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. My LinkedIn handle is Mara Goodwin Smith. Thank you so much for having me today, Marshall.

Marshall Nyman [00:20:45]:
Thank you. Appreciate your time again, thank you to Mara and to our producer, Leon Sonkin. If you’ve enjoyed this content, please give us a like and follow. Thank you for listening in. I am Marshall Nyman, host of the performance marketing spotlight and founder and CEO of Nyimon Co signing off. Thank you and have a great day.