Episode #36 – The Performance Marketing Spotlight with James Bannerman

Marshall Nyman [00:00:04]:
Hello and welcome to the performance marketing Spotlight. I’m your host, Marshall Niman, founder and CEO of Nymonco. Each episode I will be bringing you someone with deep experience in the performance marketing space where they highlight their experiences within the industry. Today I have James Bannerman, head of global sales at the reward collection. Welcome to the podcast, James.

James Bannerman [00:00:23]:
How you doing, Marshall? Good to, good to be here. Thank you for having me on.

Marshall Nyman [00:00:27]:
Doing well. Excited to have you on today. Let’s get right into it. Can you briefly introduce yourself to the audience?

James Bannerman [00:00:31]:
Audience, of course, yeah. So as you said, I’m James Bannerman. I head up the global sales team here at the Royal Collection. And predominantly my role is to head up a team of five of us that look after, really, the us market. So we’ve got a few different geos that we work in. But yeah, my brief is to bring on merchants in the us space, really. So, yeah, that’s where I’m at.

Marshall Nyman [00:00:55]:
How did you get your start in marketing?

James Bannerman [00:00:56]:
Yeah, I think it goes back from. To sales, really. I used to be. I used to be. An interesting fact. Yeah, I used to be an actor back in the day. That’s what I did. I did performing arts at college and then I was an actor.

James Bannerman [00:01:10]:
I’ve got an agent, was an actor for three or four years. And then I fell into chefing because when I was doing auditioning, I just needed something quick and easy to do that I could go for auditions. And then everyone told me that I had a big mouth and a bright personality and the sales and marketing were probably my area. And then started working for a company called Taste Card, which is a diners club over in the UK. And actually Tom, our CEO, used to work for a rival diners club called the Gourmet Society. So we were actually sort of nemesis and rivals in that industry. And then pars went a slightly different way and then we came back into the reward collection, which is very much obviously performance based and marketing. I think I’m quite persuasive, quite a big personality and I think marketing suits me.

James Bannerman [00:01:55]:
So the first marketing really was probably the reward collection, to be fair, it was sales previous to that. But yeah, I’ve been nonstop since then.

Marshall Nyman [00:02:02]:
What led you to join the reward collection?

James Bannerman [00:02:05]:
It was, yeah, it was. It was during COVID I think. I think Tom and the guys, I think they’ve had some various different companies Covid hit and obviously the entire landscape completely changed. But rewards and discounts and what have you were very much the brief for Tom when he was at gourmet society and obviously I’m from that, from that industry as well. I just saw some bits and pieces whilst in another role coming up as effectively a startup. So Royal Collection’s probably about four years, I’ve been here about three years now, just over three years, but it’s about four years old. It was a startup. It just really appealed.

James Bannerman [00:02:41]:
Tom and the guys and all the team, Marco and Adam that had previously worked there all seemed like great guys sort of interviewed. I saw an opportunity to go in and disrupt the market and really grab something by the horns and could make a difference there, really. So yeah, interview came in and yeah, like I say, it’s been a, an upward trajectory from there on in, really. So that’s how, that’s how we started here.

Marshall Nyman [00:03:04]:
What is the reward collection?

James Bannerman [00:03:05]:
The reward. Crikey. Yeah, the Royal collection. We are, yeah, I suppose the clues in the, in the title really. But we’re the biggest broker, you guys call it, or an aggregator of card linked and open banking cashback offers in the world now. So we have a big portfolio of merchants and brands from local independent brands all the way up to multi billion dollar brands that we have effectively push into various different banks and employee benefit platforms across the world. Obviously, as we’ve discussed before unbriefed at the US to increase their sales, to bring in new customers. Our strapline is very salesy, but it’s attract, reward, retain, attract new customers, lapse customers, competitors customers, offer them something different, increased spend and frequency of spend with existing customers as well, creating a loyalty piece, getting customers to stay with said brand by offering them an incentive, a cash back incentive to do so via a frictionless mechanic, obviously card linking and open banking.

James Bannerman [00:04:05]:
Yeah, and we work with some of the biggest, like I say, some of the biggest publishers in the world. And we basically push from the left hand where the merchant is, to the right hand where the publisher is, and for free, risk free and free of charge. Just that cashback incentive really make a difference and move the dial for a lot of the most well known brands in the world.

Marshall Nyman [00:04:25]:
How do card linked offers actually work?

James Bannerman [00:04:27]:
How do they actually work? So long story short is that you will do, you will have a bank card that you use every day that you’ll purchase at the store or you’ll go to use your groceries or you’ll purchase some clothes, whatever that is. You can get different platforms. It’s usually a banking. We promptly work with a lot of the banks. So we work with Citibank, for example, bank of America, Wells Fargo, Amex, you might have one of those guys, they’ll have a rewards or loyalty platform within their app. So you’ll go on, you’ll say, yes, you can track my purchases, and I will link said bank account or link said card. So you will then actively link that bank account or that, or that card that you use predominantly. You can add multiple cards as well, and you will effectively use those cards at their preferred merchants.

James Bannerman [00:05:09]:
So there’ll be a list of merchants that are in there, in that app. And then when you go and purchase from that merchant, either off or online, so it could be a store online and get delivery in, or you could go offline. So it could be a site, a restaurant, grocer’s, a 711, Walmart, anything like that. And then they basically track that sale. So you could get 10% off at Dunkin donuts, for example, or you get 10% cash back. You go to, um. Yeah, you go to Walmart or Dunkin’s, you go and buy, and it’s a frictionless, um, handshake, um, that actually works between the card that is already linked to the bank account and the merchant id, the mid for short of either online or, or obviously in store as well. Those two create a, um, transactional data piece, and once that’s in there and you’ve got the money and that transaction is done, we then collect that information and then we relay that back into the brand.

James Bannerman [00:06:09]:
The brand pays us the cash back. Agreed. And then we, obviously, via the publisher, will then pay the customer their cash back. So the mechanics, exactly the same in terms of purchasing. The only difference is you’ll be rewarded for going to that brand, rather than a slightly different brand. So there’s nothing that needs to be done. There’s no coupons, there’s no codes, there’s nothing that needs to be entered anywhere. Once you’ve linked that card and you use at those preferred merchants that that bank or employee benefit platform has registered with them with that cash back by as you would normally, and then usually within about 30 days, you’ll get that cash back coming back into your account, either with money or you’ll, you’ll.

James Bannerman [00:06:44]:
Sometimes you’ll say british airways, for example, you’ve got value dynamics, you’ve got Collins. And so you’ve got. It’ll come in as air miles. Or you might have a point system, like Rakuten do a point system and various bits and pieces as well. So usually it’s money that will just come back in hard cash. And sometimes it’s, it’s, you know, within that currency, whichever, that, that bank or employee benefit platform uses that currency within. So completely frictionless. And it’s just promoting loyalty, really, Marshall, it’s, you know, it’s just say that’s for the merchants, say thank you for that customer to continue to buy from them and spend a little bit more because you’re going to get a bit back.

Marshall Nyman [00:07:17]:
Why should a brand get started with card linked offers?

James Bannerman [00:07:20]:
We’ve got one of the biggest, if not the biggest reach in terms of closed customer groups in the world. So overall, our entire reach of the, the reward collection and the various different publishers, we have various publishers we push through and they have sub publishers underneath them. I think we’re up and around 512 million now. So a significant over half a billion closed customer groups. And what I mean by that is they’re not discounts that are out on site for anybody to have. You have to be a Citibank, Wells Fargo, a PNC customer, for example, you have to have linked those cards or you have to have given carte blanche for that bank to be able to track your purchases. And then, and then obviously going, go and go and buy the said merchants. So the reach is huge, it’s closed user groups.

James Bannerman [00:08:04]:
So it’s not all for everybody, it’s loyalty for certain banking customers, the reach is massive, it’s frictionless, it’s risk free for a merchant to come on. It’s a great way to promote loyalty. It’s a great way to, like I said, there’s probably four prongs to reward collection and card linking in general, and what we can do in terms of strategy. And it all depends on what the merchant’s looking for. Are they looking to reward their customers? Say thank you, stay with us. Are they looking to increase the spend of the customers? Because on average, about 28% increase on spend is what we can do when there’s a card linked offer attached or a cash back card linked cashback offer attached to the merchants. And obviously we can target lapse customers that have bought from a brand before, but they haven’t bought recently. So a lot of people have paid good money via CPA, the traditional affiliate models that you know about yourself, and there’s a plethora of different solutions for that paid x amount of money to bring a customer in, and then they’ve fallen off the, you know, they’ve fallen off the conveyor belt for some reason.

James Bannerman [00:09:01]:
They’ve gone to another brand or they’ve gone somewhere else, etcetera. So it’s a good way to target them so they bought previously, maybe three years ago, but haven’t bought in the last twelve months. Pull them back in an old competitor as well. With the open banking side of things, the banks can see the purchase history and what those customers are doing, where they’re buying, what they’re buying and how often they’re buying it. So if they’re buying from a certain competitor or a certain vertical genre, so they buy a lot in fast food, they buy, spend a lot on going out, spend a lot on fashion, entertainment, attractions, whatever that may be, they can then target the people that are spending in those areas because it’s obviously a much better fit for those customers to buy with said brand. And also, like I say, the brand new customers. Who doesn’t want brand new customers? Someone that’s not shopped with them in the previous twelve months. Every single merchant I’ve ever spoken to wants new customers.

James Bannerman [00:09:52]:
So it’s putting in somebody that’s never bought from you before and then it’s down to the brand. Right? If it’s a restaurant you’ve got to give good food, good service. If they’re buying fashion, they’ve got to give good customer service, they’ve got to give a good quality of item, et cetera, et cetera. So it’s leading the horse to water really, and letting them have a drink and hopefully they enjoy whatever they’ve purchased and they come back and it’s not just about getting a discount, it’s about trying it out, paying full price, getting a bit of a thank you retrospective cash back and staying with that brand, a because you like them and b because you’re getting a bit of a thank you behind it in terms of commercial, commercial incentive or reward? I in terms of cash back, really.

Marshall Nyman [00:10:28]:
What does it take for a brand to get launched with a card linked offer?

James Bannerman [00:10:31]:
So the way we work ourselves with it, with a card link with ourselves, we’ll speak to a merchant. So we’ll approach them. We’ll get, obviously we’ll quite often get a list of preferred merchants that some of the publishers or the banks will want to work with. That might be a vertical or a certain genre, it might be an actual certain brand. We’ll approach the brand and try and get on a call and speak to them and try and identify and find out as well what those challenges the brand’s having. Because everybody’s different. Every brand of every different size is very, some are really hot on the loyalty piece and customer retention. Some, like I said to you, almost everybody wants those new customers as well.

James Bannerman [00:11:06]:
Some have seen a big drop off rate, so they want to pull those lapsed in. So it really does depend on what the merchant wants. We’ve got so many tools in the toolbox that we can be really fluid. We can solve almost any problem. It’s not perfect because nothing is. But we’ve got a lot of tools in the toolbox to be able to solve most of the challenges that a merchant will have, whether they’re a million dollar revenue a year brand or whether they’re a multi billion dollar brand, they’ll all have different challenges. So we’ll identify those on a call. We’ll go through everything that they may find a bit of a challenge or a struggle and look to be able to help and solve and support and move the dial in terms of the mechanic of those sales.

James Bannerman [00:11:44]:
So not just scatter gunning out and you know, just throwing it all out and hoping on a big billboard somewhere and hoping people come and buy from that brand. We really do look at it in terms of structuring. And what I mean by that is we can do budget restraints, we can do minimum spends, maximum spends, we can gate off offers in terms of new laps, competitor and existing. We can look to, like I say, we can look to improve the spend of existing customers, we can just do solely new customers. The less red tape the better. As soon as somebody sees it, you’re on an app, PNC, you see it’s 20% off at foot locker, for example, you don’t want to then it to be a wet Tuesday once a year. If your name begins with a j and you only get that offer, they’re just not going to get the redemptions. We live in an age now where you’ll see it on Instagram or TikTok, you’ll click it, you’ll buy it, it’s here the next day.

James Bannerman [00:12:34]:
People want frictionless rewards and that’s what we can really offer there. And then we would sort all that out. In terms of the commercials, we asked for a six month proof of concept, six or twelve months, just to make sure that the campaign is gone long enough for us to get into up to 512 million customers. So we’re up to about 283 million, I think, in the states. Get all the contracts signed and everything. And then we then start pushing to the, pushing to the publishers and to the banks, depending on the offer mechanic, depending on the red tape, depending on the commercial viability. So the size or the amount of cash back will depend on which publishers they go live with and then supporting them through the board. With our account managers and then start, like I say, start to move the needle in terms of what they wanted, the new, the existing, the lapsed and competitor offers, et cetera, et cetera.

James Bannerman [00:13:24]:
And start bringing them sales and making them money, making the banks a little bit of money and giving them a rich content of loyalty merchants for their customers to utilize. And obviously us as a bit of a kickback in terms of aggregating that relationship as well. And hopefully you’ve got a three way triangle that everyone’s happy with boarding. And then we can always be fluid post board, post sales as well if we need to holidays coming up or a Black Friday or the Christmas or Thanksgiving, whatever that is, the promotional, the seasonal. Sometimes an offer will need to go up, sometimes we need to dip a little bit, sometimes we’ll need to cap it and what have you. So we can be really fluid with the brand in terms of what they need as well. So that’s how a typical start to finish looks like. Really.

Marshall Nyman [00:14:07]:
Does this integrate with an affiliate program?

James Bannerman [00:14:09]:
It’s a brilliant question. I said this, Brian, and this is what I really feel that it’s great to speak to yourself and I spoke to Dustin previously and I love to give a shout out to the guys, particularly the flex office team and everflow, on who should be meeting with them next week. We will come on to that. These guys obviously used to spoken to Skimlinks yesterday, for example. These guys are all affiliates. It’s links, it’s clicks, it’s cookies, it’s PPC’s. It’s all the traditional stuff that’s been going on for decades that far, far more qualified people know a lot more than I do about how that industry works. And what I’m trying to do is bridge the gap that it doesn’t have to be card link and open banking over here in this corner and in the affiliate world over in that corner.

James Bannerman [00:14:51]:
So a bit of a, bit of a matchmaker really. I’m trying to be over the last little while in terms of integrating with an affiliate. So the nuts and bolts really is that we now just literally last week, this week and next week we’ve got APIs being built for all the big networks as well because we work with our friends. Impact, Rakuten, obviously everflow that’s going to be up and running ASAP probably in the next week or two. Partners stack. We’re just working Randy and the guys there as well. Awin and we’ve got CJ. Yeah.

James Bannerman [00:15:24]:
And Tune and there’s a plethora of the networks as well. So what we do with them is we will get the, our granular data, our sales data once a month and we’ll usually manually, but now we’re going to be using an API, so automated putting those sales into those networks, or we can manually do it straight to brand. So those affiliate networks will then we will just come in their dashboard and look like every other, you know, every other advertiser that’s in there. So it’s all done via ourselves or an API or an account manager at one of those networks all piped in and it will just show the amount. And we also support that with an excel spreadsheet of granular data. Goes right down to sort of day time, spends last four digits of cards used, where it came from, etc, etc. As well. So we’re quite granular.

James Bannerman [00:16:09]:
So that’s now being can be piped into these networks and we can then be a part of all the regular advertisers that are using those links and using the more traditional affiliate routes. So we’re not just sort of left out on the side. Were now sort of integrated in there as well. So they can just see one stop shop, they can just see how the performance is going. What we don’t do is obviously is real time, because we don’t track via links, we don’t see minute by minute, and we see a graph of the day going up and where it came from and what have you. We don’t do that. And that sort of alludes to what I was saying. Nobody’s perfect, we just don’t operate in that way because we track via mid, we collect this data every couple of weeks and then we report into the brand or the network every month.

James Bannerman [00:16:51]:
But with obviously a chronological set of data that’s a bit more granular to prove where the sales came from. But it can now be integrated into those networks, which is a huge leap for us and it’s massively advantageous. And it’s been falling on really warm years with some of the guys before mentioned there, like your everflows and flex offers and partner stacks. They’re doing the work manually to be able to bridge the gap because they know how much value we can give really to, you know, to these brands. And it doesn’t have to be completely separate, we can integrate it in. And of course, a lot of the networks, there’ll be, there’ll be an override in there, or there’ll be a finder’s fee, or quite often they’ll just be a rev share for aggregating that relationship. So there’s two aggregators on the end of a merchant and a publisher. And we now really are smoothing, smoothing the way forward.

James Bannerman [00:17:41]:
The guys at Rakuten has been fantastic with that API going live this week. So it’s all going to be automated and we’re not going to be the bad smell in the room anymore, hopefully. We’re going to be, you know, we’re going to be. We’re going to be in there with all the regular other guys as well. And it’s something I’ve been really passionate about since I started here literally three years ago. Identified CJ and a win very quickly. Obviously, affiliate windows is massive and that we need to be a part of this. But because of the way the tracking worked, it’s always been very clunky.

James Bannerman [00:18:08]:
But slowly, slowly, slowly and surely, we’re breaking those down. And we also seemed as well, I think there’s been some guys that do what we do and I don’t think they’ve been maybe as amenable as we have as well, because we know if you stand still you’re going to go backwards. So we need to move forward as well. But it’s about that educational piece about getting good relationships with people so they’ll trust you that you’re not going to. You’re not something, you’re going to scam anybody or you’re not going to, you know, you’re not going to drop the ball anywhere or do anything daft and really bridging that, like I say. So I feel like a bit of a matchmaker in that respect. So it can be done now and it can be done relatively seamlessly as well. So it’s very exciting for us.

Marshall Nyman [00:18:44]:
Anything else exciting on the roadmap for the reward collection?

James Bannerman [00:18:49]:
Yeah, I think so. I think previously, I think we’ve just announced that we’ve just started working with United Parks and it’s one of my guys, Ryan, who works on our team. He’s been superb since he’s come in around a year ago now and just over and yeah, he’s been sensational in what he’s been doing and speaking to brands, picked up everything and this is a bit of his baby, really. So obviously that includes the seaWorlds, Discovery Cove and Busch Gardens, obviously being. Discussing previously, being a father of three, we’ve been in and around the Disney worlds and the sea worlds and the Discovery Cove with the Dolphins and Busch gardens for the roller coasters. Right. So I know all about them and they’re just. They’ve been fantastic from start to finish.

James Bannerman [00:19:32]:
It’s a real feather in the cat for everybody, I think. And we can’t wait to really push those out to all our publishers as well. And the publishers absolutely loved the fact that somebody so big is entrusted into card linking. It’s the first soiree into card linking as well, so there’s a lot of trust there and that’s down to. Down to Ryan and us as a team into really getting that out there and trusted. It’s fantastic. So really looking forward to seeing how that’s performed. There’s some other very, very large brands we’ve got over here.

James Bannerman [00:20:02]:
We’ve got Hamley’s over here that we’ve just started working with the toy store, very famous, and obviously that’s for the UK team. Some great news happening there. Some really, really good brands coming on. I think we bought on 38 and what we would deem as tier two or tier one brands, so that’s done on revenue. So between 50 and 350 million to tier two and then we’d have a tier one above that, up to a billion and an enterprise brand. So, you know, fantastic, fantastic stuff. So we’re looking forward to just seeing how they perform really and really moving the dial for these guys that put sort of trust in us. Yeah.

James Bannerman [00:20:34]:
And just growing the US. You guys are massive in everything you do, so it feels like there’s no end point, really. The UK are doing really well. We’ve got India that’s doing really well on the enigmatic smiles, which is our sister company that works fantastic as well. So just growing as an ecosystem and hopefully we look at unlocking more territories as well. Let’s take over the world. Let’s dip into Australia, let’s do a bit of a pack and make sure we’ve got Europe. We just started working with revolut as well, so that brings us 38 to 40 million cards or bank accounts via revolut in Europe as well.

James Bannerman [00:21:10]:
So the sky’s the limit. So it’s. Yeah, there’s no, there’s no sort of. There’s no end game. There’s no stopping point for us, which is we’re doing some really good things. So it’s a really good place to work at the moment and it’s. It’s good to be, like I say, breaking down those, those doors in terms of the affiliate world and speaking to yourself, who’s obviously predominantly. That’s how you guys work and, and, you know, and speaking to Dustin as well, who’s obviously.

James Bannerman [00:21:32]:
Affiliates. Affiliates. Affiliates. And all that type of stuff at inflection and yeah, it’s good to be, you know, I think it’s my wonderful dusted tones and gorgeous personality and fantastic wit that gets me into conversations with good people like yourselves that can break down these doors. But I think it is more likely the proposition to reach and what we can do sort of commercially for brands rather than. Rather than me being a charmer.

Marshall Nyman [00:21:56]:
Any predictions on the future performance marketing in terms of card linked offers?

James Bannerman [00:22:03]:
Yeah, I think it’s gonna. I think it’s gonna grow. We knew this sort of two or three years ago. We knew we were on the sort of, it wasn’t brand new then, but we know on the precipice and the frictionless side of stuff is great. I think there’s some challenges as well. I see Jane’s little posting about it on Stephen as well from moonpool chatting about it. In terms of the challenges with the cookies and Google and all that type of stuff, it’s not something I’ve delved into massively because it’s not hugely relevant to what we’re doing. You’ve got the affiliate guys that tend to do their stuff and we do our stuff and obviously, like I said, we tend to bridge the gap there.

James Bannerman [00:22:37]:
Obviously, card linking doesn’t have that, you know, doesn’t have those issues, really. We’re the last touch point. It’s the point of sale. It’s James Bannerman with his PNC account that buys from Nike’s merchant id. That’s the data that we collect. It’s the purchase. So we don’t worry about links and what’s going to be strangled and what’s not going to be let through and all this type of stuff. But I really think open banking is the one that the things is going to fly even more because you do sell your soul to devil a little bit.

James Bannerman [00:23:06]:
And me and Dustin joked about this. You do, you give carte Blanche for your bank to look into your entire purchases, and that can be quite intrusive as well. But it does mean you’re going to get the best cashback offers out there from the biggest brands in the world, where we all shop, from your costas to your Starbucks to your, you know, your Walmarts, like I say, to your apples, your Coca Cola and so on and so forth. So that means you can get lasered offers and they’re directed to you. And I’ve touched on it before in terms of, you know, your facebooks and your Instagram, you’re going to get adverts if you’ve got a free platform, you’re going to get advertised to. And I personally and millions and millions of other people would rather get something that’s relevant to them. So I’d rather not be tried to sold stuff that’s just. I’ll just swipe away.

James Bannerman [00:23:46]:
I’m not interested in actually see stuff that I might be interested in. I’ve got no problem with being advertised to for stuff that I want, so I want it. I’m not going to pretend I don’t buy things. So it’s, yeah, stuff that’s relevant will be, will be far easier. So that, that tends to be where we’re sat an open bank and leans itself to that really, really well. They’re going to advertise to you. If you buy you x brand or expert or X Genre a lot, then they’ll push to you. But they will, they do obviously, in turn take a lot of data away from that, but it does mean that you’re going to get pushed.

James Bannerman [00:24:19]:
And I think that’s really, that really is the way that things are going to move the open bank inside of stuff, because it does offer a whole lot more than just a piece of transactional data that gives a real insight into those customers and what their purchasing habits and their daily spends are, where they spend, how much they spend. And it can only help brands in that way as well. So I think that really is the exciting part and I think that’s going to really move forward a lot in the next two to five years.

Marshall Nyman [00:24:49]:
And what has been your favorite part of working in the performance marketing industry?

James Bannerman [00:24:55]:
Yeah, probably making a difference. When I first started off as well, certainly in the UK, we work with the smaller brands that really need a shot in the arm in terms of visibility and obviously sales was really rewarding. And as we’ve moved up the gears in terms of who we work with, commercial viability and opportunities for the bigger brands, it’s been out to make a bit of a difference, I think also having a conversation next week with somebody that I don’t know who I’m going to have that conversation with and be able to speak to them and be able to offer a solution or some genuine value to some of the big, biggest businesses in the world in terms of whatever their challenge may be. And to help them achieve that, I find really quite satisfying. That might be just sort of satisfying a big ego, quite possibly, or it’s, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a more charitable side that you’re helping a big business or a business increase their sales. But I don’t know which one of the two. Maybe. Maybe a little blend of both.

James Bannerman [00:25:54]:
But, um. Yeah, I. It’s something I. Yeah, I really enjoy doing. I don’t feel like I, you know, I work a lot of hours and I’ll put do what needs to get done. But it’s the thread of the chase. I’m in the right industry here. It’s chasing somebody that doesn’t know, never heard of me and then becoming good friends with them or becoming a real valued asset to their business models.

James Bannerman [00:26:14]:
Quite. It’s quite a drug. It’s quite. It’s quite, you know, it’s quite. It satisfies the. The thirst, I think, is. Is probably the best way to put it. Or.

James Bannerman [00:26:24]:
Yeah, the. Yeah, the easiest way to put it, I think, without sounding like a yemenite. Yeah. Hunting and, you know, doing bloodthirsty and all that type of stuff. But no, I, making a difference, I think, is a really important thing for me in my, my professional life. And I, you know, I enjoy doing it. And I’d like to think that most people would agree with that, but there might be one or two that may not agree, but hopefully on the majority, people would agree that, you know, we, I can make a bit of a difference to what they’re doing in, in their own world and their own business.

Marshall Nyman [00:26:53]:
A big thank you to James Bannerman for joining the podcast this week. Some great insights into his background and how you can leverage card linked offers through the reward collection. James, what’s the best way for listeners to connect with you?

James Bannerman [00:27:07]:
Sales go on. I’m headed.